In this episode, I wrap up the two-part mini-series on fall travel along the Great River Road. Arkansas-based travel writer Kim Williams and I talk about when fall colors are likely to bloom and the best places to catch them. We also talk about the upcoming King Biscuit Blues Festival and how the state is gearing up for a once-in-a-lifetime event, a full solar eclipse that will be visible across much of the state in April 2024. Kim shares her thoughts about foods we should try, schools me on the options for eating catfish, and explains why I should definitely try something called chocolate gravy.
Show Notes
Kim Williams covers travel and events in eastern Arkansas. Follow her on Twitter (@ARDeltaTraveler).
Here are links to some of the places we talked about in this episode:
The King Biscuit Blues Festival in Helena-West Helena, Arkansas (Oct. 5-8)
Plans for welcoming the total solar eclipse on April 8, 2024
The Sultana Disaster Museum in Marion
Tacker’s Shake Shack in Marion
The Johnny Cash Boyhood Home in Dyess
The Hampson Archeological Museum State Park in Wilson
Support the Show
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Transcript
8. Kim Williams Arkansas in Fall
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
arkansas, mississippi river, year, helena, people, museum, river, mississippi, called, cheese dip, state, blues festival, places, grew, eclipse, wilson, part, catfish, king, fall
SPEAKERS
Dean Klinkenberg, Kim Williams
Kim Williams 00:00
But there is something to me magical about the Mississippi River. I mean, besides its importance to the culture in the history of this part of the United States, there’s still something magical.
Dean Klinkenberg 00:27
Welcome to the Mississippi Valley Traveler Podcast. I’m Dean Klinkenberg. And I’ve been exploring the deep history and rich culture of the people in places along America’s greatest river, the Mississippi since 2007. Join me as I go deep into the characters and places along the river and occasionally wander into other stories from the Midwest and other rivers. Read the episode show notes and get more information on the Mississippi at MississippiValleyTraveler.com. Let’s get going.
Welcome to Episode Eight of the Mississippi Valley Traveler Podcast. And another episode in this miniseries on fall travel along the Great River Road. I have the pleasure of talking with Kim Williams, who’s an Arkansas based travel writer. And we spend our time talking about fall travel along the Great River Road in Arkansas. Some of the highlights where you might be able to find a little bit of fall color in the trees. But we also talk a little bit about food and some events coming up particularly the King Biscuit Blues Festival coming up in October. And we touch on planning what the folks in Arkansas are doing for the 2024 total eclipse. You might want to start making your plans now if you’re interested in that. Quick shout out to all of the Patreon supporters again. I deeply appreciate your support. And thanks for listening to the podcast and now let’s get on to the interview.
Kim Williams is an Arkansas based travel writer specializing in the eastern part of the state where the Mississippi River runs. She’s director of the Mississippi River Parkway Commission in Arkansas that we know as the Great River Road, and is also a project manager for the 2024 Great American Eclipse and Arkansas tourism promotion. I can’t wait to hear about that, too. She has previously worked for the US Forest Service and as development director for the Delta Cultural Center in Helena-West Helena. Welcome to the podcast. Kim,
Kim Williams 02:38
thank you. Thank you for the invitation. And I loved how you told me that you found me, which was through Twitter. So thank you for that.
Dean Klinkenberg 02:48
Absolutely. And I think I’ve probably been following you for a little while I enjoy seeing your updates from Arkansas because I haven’t been traveling as much to the south recently. So I’m looking forward to following up on some of the places you highlight here in the next few months.
Kim Williams 03:02
well, we’re excited. Just just head south anytime. I’d be happy to meet you and taking you to some great barbecue.
Dean Klinkenberg 03:10
Oh, I’m always down for barbecue. That’s, that’s easy. I understand that you grew up in the Delta. Can you tell me a little bit about that. Where you grew up and what your connection is to that part of the state?
Kim Williams 03:22
Sure. I was born in Marianna, which is to give a little bit of reference, it’s between Forrest City and historic Helena. I’m about 45 miles from West Memphis. Born and raised here still live here by choice. The really one of the many cool things about my job is that we have three travel writers for Arkansas tourism. In fact, I do believe that the last time I heard, we’re the only state tourism office that has dedicated travel writers in their state. So I cover the eastern section and I can work from home in essence because I do travel quite a bit so wouldn’t make sense to have me in Little Rock and then you know, having to drive over in eastern Arkansas. So I was born and raised here went to college actually in the Arkansas Delta at Arkansas State University. And I have always and this is a true fact I have always had a love for the Mississippi River. And and I can’t I can’t tell you why. I remember being very, very young, maybe four or five, six years old. And my dad would take me out to see the river because there are some great places near Marianna. One is where the St. Francis and the Mississippi meet the confluence of the two and it was just always a magical place to me. And there is just something you know I love going to Helena even though I worked in Helena for 10 years, anytime still, when I go down there I go to have a wonderful Riverwalk that extends out into the river. But there is something to me magical about the Mississippi River. I mean, besides its importance to the culture in the history of this part of the United States, there’s still something magical. And you know, I love it. And so I’ve had this job, I guess it will be 16 years come November. Well, and actually will be because I started in November of 2006. So but I’ve always loved Arkansas, always had an immense love of the Arkansas Delta. And so when I became the director of Arkansas section of the Great River Road, I thought, you know, that’s, as Oprah would call it, “a full circle moment”. Because, you know, being able to not only promote the Arkansas Delta, but to also promote the Mississippi River. And the wonderful tourism attractions we have along the Mississippi River. It’s it’s just been a dream come true.
Dean Klinkenberg 06:05
Well, that’s fantastic. But I completely agree with you. There is something magical about spending time along the river. And one of the things that I think is special about it is that it changes so much from visit to visit. And we’re about to head into fall, at least some of us further north are already in fall, I think. But I’m kind of curious. What how do you know when fall begins down along the Arkansas part of the Mississippi River?
Kim Williams 06:30
Well, it’s not bad, the temperature, I was very excited, like this morning, I had to get up and go do a live radio show. And which is about 30 minutes away. And so I got up about 5:30. And first thing I did was ask Google what the temperature was. And it was 58 degrees. Now that is my kind of weather. So I go to a local radio station, and they do an hour long morning show. And I had mentioned it on air and and the guy was like, Well, don’t get too excited because next week we’re going to be in the upper 90s. Again. So we we don’t know when it’s ball other than by the calendar. And you know, that’s one of the very interesting things we talked about the river. So historic Helena is right there on the river. And every October, the weekend before the Columbus Day holiday, they host King Biscuit Blues Festival, which is a very well known blues festival. And so I have worked the blues festival as a volunteer for probably nearly 20 years. And the thing about it, it’s always, you know, around the first or second weekend in October, and you never know what to expect, there have been years where I would have to bring quilts with me because it would be so cold, then there have been times that you know, a t shirt and shorts and you’re still burning up. It could you know, there could be five inches of rain or there could be no rain. And so, you know, we have that saying if you don’t like the weather in Arkansas stick around because it’s going to change very quickly. So we and even you know, we talked about the Mississippi River. And you know, I don’t know that a lot of people realize that, you know, we always hear about go to the northeast, go to the Vermonts, go to the Maines to see the beautiful fall colors. All along the Mississippi River has some stunning fall color. But it’s definitely going to be at different times. You know, even within Arkansas, northwest Arkansas, up near the Fayetteville area, they usually start getting their fall color mid to late September. Here in the Arkansas Delta, we won’t see it until the first to the middle of October. So it’s much like that along the length of the 10 states that make up the Great River Road. So you can start up in Minnesota and or Wisconsin and you know, they may be already getting fall colors. But we’re not down here. But if you don’t want to go on a road trip come to Arkansas because our cotton is in full bloom and it is absolutely stunning. Absolutely.
Dean Klinkenberg 09:21
So tell me a little bit about the fall progression then. You mentioned fall colors. Are there particular places along the Great River Road in Arkansas, where a visitor might get a good a good dose of fall colors and what what could they expect to see.
Kim Williams 09:36
Um, I’ll tell you one of the best places would be the St. Francis National Forest which actually is almost in my backyard. It runs between Marianna and Helena. It’s one of the smallest I think it’s the second smallest National Forest and but it has a lot of hardwood and it has a very diverse species of hardwood, and part of it is along Crowley’s Ridge, which I don’t know if you or your listeners are familiar, but that’s a geological formation that runs from the bootheel of Missouri all the way down to Helena. And so that is a great place to see a variety of fall color. Anywhere really, especially up in the northeastern section of Arkansas, let’s say near Wilson or near Johnny Cashe’s boyhood home in Dyess. Blytheville, there’s going to be beautiful fall color on the trees that are there. But with the National Forest, there are so many trees, and it’s just a great place to go and see some color. I know that, you know, and we talk about fall color. And you know, that is a very important part for tourism in any state that actually, you know, says hey, come see our fall color. But it’s so hard to predict. You know, it all depends on the weather we just talked about in the South. I mean, you know, all of the states in this area, you never know what the weather’s gonna bring. And so you know, how much rain did we get, you know, how, when was the first frost, when was this and it’s also dependent on what our fall color is going to look like. But again, it’s a great time to also get out. I know that I had to go with my dad to Memphis on Monday. And we noticed that a lot of people are already cutting rice. So if you’re interested in agriculture, it’s a great time to be in eastern Arkansas because as I said, the cotton’s in full bloom. They’re cutting a lot of different crops, and just driving through the back roads of Arkansas. It’s it’s absolutely beautiful.
Dean Klinkenberg 12:00
So from now until through the fall, then you have this progression of agricultural harvest going on. So right now in the fields, the cotton plants have those giant white balls all over them, right?
Kim Williams 12:15
Yes, they’re not at what I like to call, you know, the snow look yet which, you know, it’s completely bloomed out. But you can see a lot of why it’s not it at full, at least in my part of eastern Arkansas. But it’s still beautiful, you know, and but when it’s going to be at its peak, probably in another week and a half, maybe two weeks, it will just look like fields of snow. And it’s absolutely beautiful. And I always love and now I don’t do it without someone’s permission. But I always love to go out into a cotton field. It’s in full bloon. I mean, it’s just, it’s just beautiful. And you can take some amazing selfies, by the way, just for visitors that may want to come down and just lay down in a cotton field. It’s it’s it’s pretty darn impressive.
Dean Klinkenberg 13:03
So what else do you think a visitor might expect from fall travel along Arkansas portion of the Great River Road? We talked to I’ll come back to the King Biscuit Blues Festival just a minute because I’d like to talk a little bit more about that. But what else is going on in the fall along the Great River Road in Arkansas that visitors would love to experience?
Kim Williams 13:23
Well, we’re very excited because there’s two projects, two museums that have been raising money over the past few years. They’re still not ready to move into new facilities, but that is the National Cold War Center in Blytheville. They had the Eaker Air Force Base. And when the Cold War was over, and they left, they just took everything. I mean, they just left everything as it was. So it’s still looking like it was in the 1980s. So they there is a section that you can go in and see they have a great exhibit on the Air Force Base. And another one is the Sultana Disaster Museum. So many people do not know the story of the Sultana. Now, you can ask anybody from eight till eighty. Hey, do you know what the Titanic is? Well, of course they do. Of course, that little movie had a lot to do with it. But the Sultana is still America’s worst maritime disaster. And it happened in April of 1865. With a lot of Union soldiers that had been prisoners of war and it blew up and killed I believe nearly 1100 people and they are building a museum. They are in an interim space now. It’s the only one I mean, there are a lot of places that have special monuments and things to the Sultana, but no one has a museum. And so that is in Marion. Because it actually blew up nearer Marion than it did Memphis. And like I said, they’re working hard on that but in both locations, you can see either the interim museum at the Sultana Disaster Museum, or a great exhibit on the Air Force Base at the National Cold War Center. I call it museum, but it’s the National Cold War Center. And both of those are one of a kind museums in the world. So we’re very excited about that. You know, of course, anytime is a good time to go see the Johnny Cash Boyhood home in Dyess. I do have to say, I was always very respectful of Johnny Cash. I mean, his music, his importance to Arkansas. But when they opened that museum, and I went for the first time, I realized that Johnny Cash was a person. He wasn’t just the legendary man in black. And I have become such a huge fan. And, you know, he talks about how important his life in Arkansas was especially growing up in Dyess. And it’s just an every time I go, I see something different. And in case your listeners don’t know about it, you actually go into the house that the Cash family lived in. And his remaining siblings, which are Joanne and Tommy cash, really worked with Arkansas State University who owns owns the site, to make it as it was when the Cash family lived there. And they have Johnny’s mother, Carrie, they have her piano. And I mean, they worked with this is exactly the couch that we had. And they found a couch just like it. They found in another house, that you know, the exact flooring that the Cash family had. And it just is amazing to walk in there and see. And this time of year with the fall. It’s actually the house is actually in the middle of a field. And I don’t know if they planted cotton this year, but in the past they have and so you’re pulling up and there could just be these beautiful white fields of cotton. And then there’s the little, you know, five room house that Johnny Cash grew up in from the time he was three to eighteen when he left for the Air Force. So that is a great place to experience fall in Arkansas.
Dean Klinkenberg 17:41
Awesome. I had one of those lucky moments of travel a few years back, I forget exactly what year this was. But it was the year the museum opened. I just happened to be driving through that area. On the day they were doing the VIP tours before opening to the public. And I was able to sneak in and at least take a look at the museum that’s in an old movie house, I think. In the town. And the exhibits I thought were really fantastic. They really gave a good picture, as you said, of the man behind the music. So I think that’s a fantastic site. And it’s just a short few miles off Interstate 55. So it’s an easy place to get to.
Kim Williams 18:23
Absolutely. But once you get off 55 going to Dyess and I should be able to tell you what actual exit it is. But I can’t think of that right now. But you are literally put into the world that Johnny Cash grew up in because all around our agricultural fields. And you know, it amazes me, of course, I had heard “Five Feet High and Rising” my entire childhood. I mean, my dad loved Johnny Cash, but not even as a little kid knowing that he is talking about the flood of you know, ’37 and when he was growing up and the chickens were, you know, up in the trees. And so it it really is one of those come together moments that you think wow, you know, this begat that begat this. And so yeah, it’s really amazing place and I will tell you another great location, simply 14 miles across from the Interstate is a little community called Wilson. And Wilson was a company town owned by our R. E. L. Wilson. And he, during his height was the biggest farm owner in the United States. I mean, he had thousands and thousands and thousands of acres. And so he traveled a lot with his wife and he fell in love with the tutor architecture of Great Britain. And so you go in this downtown and he built all the buildings in tudor style. And there’s a great museum and I’m not just saying it’s great because it’s one of our 52 Arkansas State Parks, but the Hampson Museum, Hampson Archeological Museum State Park, and it tells the story of the Native Americans that lived in the area of Wilson. They’ve got, you know, great little shops and a restaurant and it’s just a great place to spend the day. And again, literally right on the Great River Road, Highway 61. And it’s, it’s just beautiful. Yeah the Hampson. Awesome. Together. Yeah.
Dean Klinkenberg 20:49
Wilson is a pretty little town. And I didn’t know the full history of that. But it’s one of those things on my list of things to learn more about. But I’ve been to the Hampson Museum a couple of times, including ones when they were in the old it was almost a trailer from what I remember. But man, they have some fantastic artifacts like statues and pottery masks. Just it’s a fascinating place to walk through to see these reminders of I think they were Mississippian era culture. So just after Cahokia had collapsed kind of in that period of time before DeSoto and his army arrived in the in that part of the country.
Kim Williams 21:30
Exactly. And it is an, it’s an amazing story. They were very advanced, as many of the Native American tribes were in this area, and but it tells a story unlike any other that you will find in this area. And then I have to give a shout out. There is a great shop called White’s Mercantile. And it is owned by the granddaughter of Hank Williams Senior. She’s also the daughter of Hank Williams Jr. But anyway, Holly Williams, and she has shops in Franklin, Tennessee and in Nashville and in several places. But she was friends with someone that lived in Wilson came down. You know, it really is an interesting story because someone I believe from St. Louis, his name is Gaylon Lawrence wanted to buy the farmland around Wilson. And they were like, we’re just gonna say you the whole town. So he has come in, he has put money in and he is making this a tourism destination. Well, Holly happened to come down and fell in love with the area. And so you can go and you can go to the Hampson Museum. And then you can go have lunch at the Wilson cafe. And then you can go over to White’s Mercantile. Or you can go to the Grange where they have, you know, fresh fruits and vegetables and teach classes and all these good things. I mean, Wilson is just an awesome little town, and they are making it a tourist destination. And we are thrilled about that.
Dean Klinkenberg 23:05
Yeah, it’s definitely worth a stop. And I didn’t have a chance to try the restaurant when I was there. But I’m gonna have to do that next time.
Kim Williams 23:11
Oh, please, yes, you have to. Yes.
Dean Klinkenberg 23:14
If you’re enjoying the show, share that love with other people. leave a review on iTunes or your preferred podcast app. Each review makes a difference and helps other fans of the Mississippi River and the Midwest find this show. Let’s come back to the King Biscuit Blues Festival then for just a minute. That’s coming up. I think I have these dates right October 5th to the 8th. Yes, in Helena. Tell me what what people can expect from this festival. And it’s been going on for decades. Right? This is the oldest…
Kim Williams 23:48
It started in 1986. And it started out very, very small, very small. In fact, one of the Arkansas Deltas much loved sons played the first year. Levon Helm. And, of course, you know, Levon spent so much time there after The Band broke up. And you know, he would still come to Marvell and he had family and friends and so yeah, and so this is I should know the number 35th It’s, it’s not on their website. But this is literally considered one of the best blues festival in the South for several reasons. A lot of people just want to come because of the history of King Biscuit and I’ll give just a little bit about that. It all started with a radio show called King Biscuit Time. That started in November of 1941 at KFFA radio station. And you know, it was a new radio station and these guys came in. One of them was Sonny Boy Williamson, the other one was Robert Lockwood, Jr and said,” Hey, we want to show. We want to do a show”. And they were like, well, yeah, but you have to have a sponsor. So they suggested a sponsor, and that was King Biscuit Flour. And so it became King Biscuit Time and it now is still broadcast live from the Delta Cultural Center Museum in downtown Helena. It is the longest running daily blues show in the United States and most likely, possibly the world. I mean, they have more shows. I mean, they’re probably by now in 16 or 17,000… but more shows than say the Grand Ole Opry but the Grand Ole Opry is on weekends. But people like BB King, you read, and he played. He was one of the headliners in the 30th annual King Biscuit Blues Festival. And he interviews talks about he would be in the cotton fields in Mississippi, picking cotton and at lunch, they would listen to King Biscuit and Sonny Boy Williamson and Robert Lockwood. One of my favorite stories because I’m such a huge Levon Helm fan. Levon would skip school and get a ride to the radio station and would go in and watch “Sunshine” Sonny Payne who passed away sadly a few years ago. But he would sit there and watch Mr. Sonny do the show. And I mean, I have had more people, as I mentioned, I worked for at the Delta Cultural Center for 10 years. And people would come in and you just never knew who to expect. I remember one day Bruce Hornsby walked in. He had his young son with him. And he was doing the Blues Trail, if you will. Mississippi. Memphis. He wanted to come to Helena to teach his son about the importance of blues music. But one day I was working the front desk and you know the sun is coming through the glass front doors and you can’t really tell who you’re about to see but and I see this gentleman and goodness he looks familiar he had on a hat. He come up and he started talking and I’m like, oh my goodness, it’s Elvis Costello. And Elvis had been doing a recording on an album in Memphis. He was doing some, I think in Clarksdale. And he came over just to meet, “Sunshine” Sonny Payne. And I mean, just tons of people. And, you know, I know that Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin used to come and spend time in Helena. And I mean it that radio show King Biscuit Time was really the beginning of blues. In on the Arkansas side of the river, I’ll put it that not taking anything away from Clarksdale or from Memphis or any of the others. But so in 1986, a bunch of them got together and said, “Hey, let’s put on a festival”. And it started out with the back of a trailer. And people would get up on the trailer and and perform. And, you know, you never know who would show up. I know one year, John F. Kennedy Jr. showed up. I believe Whoopi Goldberg showed up one year. But now it has either five or six stages. It takes up six blocks of historic Cherry Street, which is right downtown. The main stage, you know, it’s like bring your own seating. Well, you’re seated on part of the Mississippi River levee. And there is just something magical about it. Because they are so committed to the history of blues music. There’s a gospel stage. There’s a kid stage, you know, and this year now we’ve not had one since COVID. 2019 was the last festival, so we didn’t have it in 2020…2021. So we’re getting ready with 2022, and yeah, it does start. We have what’s called warmup Wednesday, on the day before the the festival officially kicks off and one of Arkansas’s greatest performers even though he was born in Mississippi, but he still calls Arkansas his home and that’s Bobby Rush. So Bobby Rush will be performing live free the Wednesday of the Blues Festival. On Thursday the headliners are the Kentucky Headhunters and The Fabulous Thunderbirds with Kim Wilson on Friday, and I’m so excited about this but the main headliners are Paul Thorne Band which have become rare really good friends with all those guys love them and Mavis Staples, and I really want, I work in artist hospitality at King Biscuit. I just want to sit down and talk to Mavis Staples about “The Last Waltz”, and you know “The Weight” and Levon Helm. And so maybe this is on Friday night and then Saturday night, the headliner is the Devon Allman Project and I believe that’s Gregg Allman’s son. It’s one of those. And so yeah, but here’s another great thing about King Biscuit. First of all, you will hear as many foreign accents as you will Southern accents, because there’s a huge international crowd that comes every year. Great food, people are just having fun, and just enjoying it. And again, we always hope for really good weather like not 90 degrees, but not 40. So we’ll see. But King Biscuit is a free festival. The only thing you pay for to see a stage is if you’re in front of the main stage, there’s like VIP seating, every other stage is completely free, you can walk up and down through the festival and not pay a dime. Other than of course, if you want something to eat or drink, and there’s craft booths, and tons of food and, and drinks, and you there is something special about it. And just you feel the history of the blues, and the culture of the Arkansas Delta at King Biscuit.
Dean Klinkenberg 31:51
So for folks who might want to stick around for a couple of days, so where would be the places to stay. There’s probably quite a few hotels in the Helena-West Helena area over toward Clarksdale.
Kim Williams 32:02
Yes that’s everything I can tell you. Everything in Helena is already sold out. I can tell you that. But you can stay in Clarksdale, you can go to nearby Brinkley or Forrest City. And you know I’m not saying if anyone’s interested not to call the hotels or the B&B’s in Helena. But normally, now I say normally pre COVID they would book their hotels or their B&B room when they were there the previous year. So if they were there in you know, 2018, they would say hey, I want to book now. So that you know everything would be would be done. And then there is a casino right across the river. Isle of Capri. They of course have rooms and it’s one of those times where yes, we have a little bit of a competition, if you will tourism-wise from Mississippi or Tennessee or things like that. But there are so many people that come to King Biscuit we need all of our states to be together so we can provide rooms we’re also going to see that happen a lot with the eclipse of 2024 as well. So make King Biscuit if it’s something you’ve never been to and if you love music. And not just blues music. I mean all kinds of genres of music, it is a great, great place to be it really is.
Dean Klinkenberg 33:29
And I’ll post a, I’ll post a link to the festival website in the show notes so people can check that out and, and maybe, maybe make some last minute plans to come down there, like even if you had to…I’m trying to get my geography down, or even if you had to stay in like West Memphis. We’re talking an hour 15 or so maybe to get down to Helena.
Kim Williams 33:48
Yeah. Memphis, because Memphis is about an hour. So West Memphis. Yeah. And of course, we would love for you to stay in Arkansas. But so yeah, and it’s right there, you know, on 61. And so you’ve got four lanes or, you know, four lane highways or two on each side separated with a median and, and it’s a good drive. It’s a beautiful drive too because you’re in the Mississippi Delta. And, you know, anything that you could find around the area would would be really good and there’s some some camping options. We have the Mississippi River State Park, and that falls between Marianna and Helena as I was talking about the St. Francis National Forest. We actually have a state park within the National Forest. And so there is a you know, an agreement. The State Park actually handles now all of the recreation within the 26 or 22,000 acre National Forests so there are campgrounds and somewhat relatively new camper cabins and, and things like that. So for people that love to camp, that would be a great opportunity as well.
Dean Klinkenberg 35:04
All right, well, I want to take a few minutes to talk about food, one of my absolutely favorite topics. And I remember I forget what year this was maybe five or six years ago, I stopped at a little cafe in Arkansas to get some catfish. And I was a little surprised because I got two questions I wasn’t expecting. Do you want farm raised or wild caught? And do you want filets or steaks? So tell me about these options.
Kim Williams 35:31
Okay, well, first of all growing up. And I’m not a catfish eater. I’m gonna be the first to admit, because my dad fished constantly when I was growing up, and they would just basically make me eat catfish. Now, I will eat it now. And don’t judge me. But I like to dip mine in mustard. But you know, all right. But so especially in the 70s, my dad would whatever he caught, which he would catch in the lakes or the rivers, but not the Mississippi River. I don’t know why don’t even ask me. I don’t know, maybe it’s the mud but. And he would do steaks, which will have bones in it or he would also cut some into filets. Now my mother invariably would get choked on a bone. If she was eating a catfish steak. Invariably, it just happened. And so nowadays, because they’re both in their 70s, but, but he’s getting ready to retire. And he has already got his lifetime Arkansas Game and Fish Commission fishing license. And but now he only does filets. So yes, there are still people that prefer the steak, which has that I’m sitting here like people can see me but you know, has that sort of wishbone look. And then there are people that much prefer the filets because there’s not bones unless whoever cut it up, just didn’t do a great job. Now, pond raised or wild caught. So we have tons of lakes and streams and rivers in Arkansas. But we also have a lot of people that have pond raised catfish. So when they give you that choice, you know, they either bought it fresh from a fisherman, or they’ve had their, you know, food company, bring them in some filets. And we have a lot of places around this area. In fact, Arkansas at one time, probably a decade or two ago was one of the biggest exporters of catfish and the state sort of got out of that. But all around us. They’re still catfish farms. So that’s what they were asking. You are good to go. Either way. What did you go with? Do you remember?
Dean Klinkenberg 37:52
I think I went with the steak. Or yeah, because I hadn’t really had that kind of a cut before for it that I got a wild caught.
Kim Williams 38:01
Yeah. And that’s like I said, That’s my dad’s favorite, but my mom would always get choked on a bone. You know, because the catfish can have some of those. There’s that one big bone that gives it you know that look of sort of like a wishbone or something. But then there’s tons of little bones in it too. So you have to pay attention. So yes, that is and let me say Arkansas people always talk about the different states where they have their own specific food. Arkansas. We we are a true melting pot. And so we have two of our own foods that that truly were created here. In case you don’t know. And one of those is fried pickles. So people that go out and eat these fried pickles. You can thank the people in Atkins, Arkansas because there was a big pickle plant there back in the day. And the other one is cheese dip. Now if there’s anyone listening from Texas, I did not say queso. I said cheese dip. There’s a difference. And I don’t know if you know this but several years ago in our nation’s capitol there was a dip off and it was a blind taste test between queso from Texas and cheese dip from Arkansas. Cheese dip won. Just saying just saying they’re both great but so those are two things that are inherently Arkansas. We still have some of the best barbecue that you will find we still have some of the best catfish, you will find biscuits you know gravy, you name it. And we have some great great restaurants along the Great River Road and we talked about barbecue now I have to give a plug to Arkansas’ first James Beard Award winner because it is in my hometown Marianna. I grew up eating Jones Barbecue. There are two tables. There are 10 chairs. And Mr. Harold opens about seven in the morning. And he sells till he sells out. Now, on a weekend, that could be 830 in the morning. But it was voted an America’s classic and it is not fancy. And you have basically three choices. You can get a barbecue sandwich on Wonder Bread with slaw, a sandwich on Wonder Bread without slaw and you can buy it by the pound. And every once in a while he may do you know smoked sausage or something like that. And but the visitation and and it’s so wonderful because he has a guest book. And you will see people from every country on the globe that have come to eat barbecue. At Jones. And it’s it’s pretty amazing. It’s pretty amazing. that’s going to be on my short list. Blytheville not far from you in St. Louis has six renowned blues,not blues, barbecue joints. And don’t ask me to name them but one is Dixie Pig. And one is Kream Kastle, and, and there’s there’s several ones and there’s actually a really good YouTube video on the Arkansas tourism channel on barbecue and Blytheville. And they’re all different of course, you know, I will say barbecue, in my opinion is probably one of the most subjective foods you’ll find. Because it depends on where you grew up. And the barbecue that you ate you know if you like a thin sauce or thick sauce or or whatever. But yeah, so you’re not gonna go wrong with barbecue in Arkansas for sure. For sure. We talked about the the Wilson Cafe in Wilson, which is just absolutely amazing. But then we have little drive ins or dairy bars that you’ll find some great great food. There’s one in Marion called Tacker’s. Tacker’s Shake Shack. Okay, now I know there’s a national chain called the Shake Shack but this isn’t it and they’ve been open since the early 70s. And the son of the original owners has a farm. And so he is actually doing farm to table and it’s absolutely amazing. Like for example, he grows his own muscadines and his mom makes the family’s muscadine jam recipe and they have a muscadine bacon burger. Now let me just tell you, let me say, just sitting you’re talking about muscadines my mouth is already watering. Because you know that tartness of them. And so I went in there and I’ve been going for years and they’re like we have we have some new items. One of them is a muscadine bacon burger and I’m like, Are you kidding me? And it has cream cheese on it. And it is amazing. I mean, and just, I mean fabulous. Places like that, and and all over the state. I mean, Arkansas is really becoming a pretty awesome foodie state. And so you can find just about anything that you would want, like chocolate. Have you ever heard of chocolate gravy?
Dean Klinkenberg 43:52
No, I think I probably should, though.
Kim Williams 43:54
Oh, it is yeah. And you’ll find chocolate gravy. We believe it actually started in the Ozarks. Maybe it was the Missouri part and then came into Arkansas. Wed don’t know that. But you can Google it. It’s fabulous. My grandmother always made it. Um, of course my dad is one of 12, so she was making whatever she could to feed 12 kids. But it’s basically cocoa and flour and sugar and butter. And depending on where you ate it, it could be more like a Hershey syrup. My grandmother always made it it was almost like a hot pudding, and you pour it over biscuits. And hers was not super sweet. But it was fabulous. So yeah, chocolate gravy.
Dean Klinkenberg 44:38
So where am I going to find this along the Great River Road? Do you have a restaurant or a place or cafe you would recommend?
Kim Williams 44:44
Um, there are several just along the way. Just because let’s see, I’m trying to think what would be in Blytheville. Wilson Cafe doesn’t do it. Tacker’s Shake Shack may have it. It’s considered more of a winter thing. I’ll tell you one, though, there are a lot of places you know, where you can buy like soup mixes and stuff like that. There is an Arkansas company that sells chocolate gravy mix, and you put it on hot biscuits and you plop some butter on top. And I’m telling you, once you try it, well, I’ll say this, you’re either gonna love it or hate it. And I did some informal research when I worked at the Delta Cultural Center, because either you grew up with chocolate gravy, or you didn’t. And it didn’t have anything to do with race, religion, income. It was just either your family had it or your family didn’t. My dad’s family did. My mom who grew up 40 miles away from where my dad, never had it. And doesn’t like it. And that’s just wrong. But you know, everybody has to make everybody has to make their their own decision.
Dean Klinkenberg 45:54
So would the fried pickles and cheese dip be common enough that you could find them at a lot of different places?
Kim Williams 46:02
Yeah, absolutely.
Dean Klinkenberg 46:03
So just look for it on the menu we don’t we don’t want to start a war
Kim Williams 46:04
All over the state. For sure. For sure. Yeah. And you know, fried pickles for a long time people would say “what?”, but then they became more and more common and really, I can go almost anywhere. I was actually in Toronto back in May. And they had fried pickles on the menu of the restaurant that I was at in Toronto, Canada and I wanted to say “You are welcome. You can thank Arkansas for that”. Now I’m not going to get into the whole cheese dip thing but yeah like I said…it got I’ll tell you why it got, and when I say “ugly”, jokingly ugly but the Wall Street Journal had a story about Arkansas inventing cheese dip on their front page and a lot of people in Texas got upset. Now I know what you want to ask me. You want to ask me what’s the difference in queso and cheese dip. I think queso was considered more chunky. But it doesn’t matter. I’ve never met a queso or a cheese dip I didn’t like. So, listen, I’ll be the next time I go to Texas believe me I’ll be getting some homemade queso but when I come back home I come back to Arkansas I’ll have some cheese dip. So it’s all good.
Dean Klinkenberg 47:21
So one thing. One thing I was curious about with all the rice fields in Arkansas. Is rice a staple of the local diet too? Is it something you’re gonna see on restaurant menus?
Kim Williams 47:31
Absolutely. Do you know that over the last few years, Arkansas now grows; the last number I heard was 52% of all of the rice grown in the United States comes from Arkansas. In fact, there are some blogs that I do. We have our monthly newsletter is called Discover Arkansas. And I like to use the hashtag the #ArkansasDeltaFeedsTheWorld. You know rice is one of our biggest but it’s not our biggest. I believe soybeans are still our biggest but yeah, I mean we eat rice. Stuttgart, Arkansas, which is actually cotton that is within the Great River Road region is actually called the duck and rice capital of the world. If you want to get some amazing duck hunting, you go to Stuttgart, Arkansas. It’s also home to a little company called Riceland Rice. And and then others there are there’s Producers Rice and then I think another one and so yeah, I was noticing yesterday coming through that, you know they are still some are cutting rice there’s still some that they’re waiting on it to be harvested. But rice is a big, big crop in Arkansas. Not our largest, at least the last the last statistics I saw. And but I just happen to love rice. And I know a lot of people don’t and I don’t understand. My dad’s not a big fan. But you know, it was one of those things in the 40s and 50s that was readily available. And it was relatively cheap. So when you your husband is a sharecropper and you have 12 children as my grandmother did, you you grow what you can and you buy what is relatively cheaper than anything else. So yeah, that’s what you do.
Dean Klinkenberg 49:41
Absolutely. I’m a big fan of rice. I love it. So I’ll have to look for some when I’m when I’m down in the area. Well, we’re kind of kind of running down to the end of the time here and but I wanted to ask about one more thing. I know that Arkansas has been developing a bike trail along the river And I know that there’s some sections are open and some are still kind of planned for down the road. Could you just tell us a little because this sounds like a great fall activity again to go biking along there. Tell us a little bit about this bike trail. Where can people ride to?
Kim Williams 50:14
It is the Delta Heritage Trail State Park. It started, it was a Rails to Trails conversion. And so it is along what would have been the old railroad track and when it is completely developed, it will be 84 miles through the Arkansas Delta. Right now it starts near Helena. And we have I believe 41 miles complete. I haven’t looked lately but part of it is on the north end part of it is on the south end. So you can actually ride from near Helena down to past, we call it Elaine some people would call it “Alaine” but we call it “Elaine” around here. And then in the southern end Rohwer, which is or was a Japanese American internment camp during World War II, and actually George Takei of Star Trek fame. He and his family were interred there for several months. In fact, there is a great museum in McGehee which is also along Arkansas Great River Road called the World War II Japanese American Internment Museum. George Takei was very involved. He was there on opening day, made some amazing remarks. And he’s been very supportive of it. And so you can start there and it’s eventually going to go from there. Now you can go from near I think it’s Watson and then go through Rohwer and you’re actually on the Mississippi River levee. And then you can go into Arkansas City, which is a great city that is literally right on the Mississippi River and during the major floods of ’27 and ’37 destroyed some areas as as a lot of places did so. But yeah, Delta Heritage Trail when it is finished, and they recently received a $20 million grant. And so I’m thinking that will help develop it even even more quicker. A lot of people compare it to the Katy Trail, which I believe is in Missouri. And this is I would, I would say a little more rural in that you are going through forested area. And once it’s complete, you will have views of the Arkansas and the White River. And you know, this is an area. We talk about wildlife and things that this writer guy you may have you heard of Ernest Hemingway, he would go I believe it was dove hunting in the area near Watson and Rowher and Arkansas city. And so yeah, we have some great claim to him. You know, we have the the Hemingway… the Hemingway-Pfeiffer Museum and Educational Center in Piggott, Arkansas. He married Pauline Pfeiffer. She, I believe, was his second wife. And the family, which were originally from, from St. Louis, were wealthy and they took a barn and converted it for Ernest. And that’s where he wrote a good part of “For Whom the Bell Tolls”, I believe it was. So you can find all that on arkansas.com. And I do I don’t want you to forget the eclipse. Because that is our big thing coming. I don’t know what you Missouri folks did. But you know, you guys had it in 2017. And now you’re having it again in 2024. I mean, y’all really, y’all should share the wealth but you are sharing it with us. We in Arkansas, we only had a partial eclipse in 2017. Well, 53 of Arkansas’ 75 counties are in the path of totality. This is huge for Arkansas. And so I believe I looked, it’s 570 days until April 8 2024. We are hoping for hundreds of thousands of visitors. It’s really interesting because the path of totality runs diagonally from Texarkana and then up to Jonesborough and Piggott. And into Missouri there. But we’re really really excited we of course have not had one in Arkansas since 1918. We won’t have another one until 2045. So we’re going to take full advantage of this. You can learn more at arkansas.com/eclipse. But we are we’re we’re really, really excited. And, you know, I’ll also say that it is going to be at least in regional news today, Arkansas was extremely, extremely blessed during the pandemic, a lot of state tourism offices, and state tourism were hit hard. Arkansas is not called the natural state for nothing. And we actually released our 2021 economic impact statement yesterday. And our numbers were up, like, in some cases up 45%. And, you know, we had like 41 million visitors in 2021. And we’re really excited about that. And so we are super excited about having additional visitors for, for the eclipse in April of 2024.
Dean Klinkenberg 56:06
It really is a special experience to be in this to be around when the eclipse happens. In 2017, I was on an island in the Mississippi for the eclipse where we were in the path of totality. And it’s one of those memories, that is going to be one of my fundamental memories for the rest of my life. I think it’s just an experience unlike anything else.
Kim Williams 56:27
Yeah, every person, so I have not experienced one. So I’m I’m really, really excited about seeing one
Dean Klinkenberg 56:35
now you have a hard time deciding where are you going to experience it from you’ve got all those counties to choose from
Kim Williams 56:40
Believe it or not, some people have been vying for me to come to their community. But a dear dear friend of mine, owns a lake house in Hot Springs. And where they have, you know, Lake Hamilton and Lake Catherine and all these different lakes, and they are rebuilding their home because it was destroyed by a tree. And she said, I have a room for you. By yourself. You don’t have to share, you can come early and stay late. Because you know, one of the things and I’m sure that you dealt with this during 2017 is with an eclipse and you’re doubling the population of your community. There are some problems with traffic. And we have this little thing called interstate 40 that runs through the heart of Arkansas, where on a normal day, my goodness, you could get stuck for hours. And so I had really been wanting to be somewhat off the radar on a back road or, or something like that. But I will be in the middle of Lake Hamilton on a boat, where I will stay two to three days after the eclipse. So I won’t be stuck on interstates 30 and and 40.
Dean Klinkenberg 57:53
I think that’s one of the secrets about this is don’t be in a hurry to leave afterwards.
Kim Williams 57:58
in fact, we we are pushing to come early, stay late and stay put. And it’s not just because you know, we want people to spend money. I mean, it is a safety factor. You know, there are the horror stories from 2017 people being stuck on highways and interstates 4, 6, 8, 10 hours. And, you know, if we plan if our visitors plan, we can, you know, try to skirt some of those issues. So, but we’re really excited. And so thanks to Missouri for at least sharing with us. This this go round because y’all didn’t in 2017. But I had to say I was speaking to someone in Ohio, and they’re in the path of totality this year. But they don’t get another one until like 2412. And I’m like, well I’m not gonna be around for the one in 2412 or whatever. 2400 whatever year it is. So yeah, eclipses are kind of crazy how they just happen to fall. So, but we’re excited
Dean Klinkenberg 59:01
Well that sounds, that sounds like yeah, that sounds fantastic. So I’ll post a link in the show notes to to the site promoting the eclipse and the eclipse opportunities. So we are out of time now. Thank you so much, Kim for taking the time out of your day to talk with me. We’ll probably have to have this conversation again somewhere down the road to talk about the Arkansas travels. So enjoy the rest of your day and thanks for sharing your enthusiasm and your love of that part of the Arkansas with us.
Kim Williams 59:31
Well thank you Dean. I appreciate it. And everybody can see us in Arkansas
Dean Klinkenberg 59:47
And now it’s time for the Mississippi minute. I’m just home from a trip through Mississippi and Arkansas to visit some of the public lands along the Mississippi. On the second the last day I pulled into Arkansas Post National Memorial just as the lone staff person was pulling down the American flag, it was another hot day in the low 90s. But that was still nearly 10 degrees cooler than it had been earlier in the week. I appreciated the cooldown, such as it was. I’ve been Arkansas post once before, but that was probably seven years ago. This time around I wanted to walk around the prairie restoration I’d read about. Arkansas Post was at the southern end of what was known as the Grand Prairie, a rare section of grassland that it evolved in an area that gets on average around 50 inches of rain a year, which is far more than grasslands typically get. The thing is the hard clay soil makes it tough for trees to take root and the occasional fires. Many of them historically, intentionally set by indigenous people to manage those grasslands also kept the landscape favorable for grasses and prairie plants. I was looking forward to finding out how many plants I might recognize in this grand prairie restoration after all the prairies I had visited earlier in the summer along the upper Mississippi. So you can imagine my disappointment when the staff person at the National Memorial told me that there are actually two Arkansas Posts and the prairie restoration was at the other one. Well, it’s what’s called the Arkansas Post Museum which is run by the state of Arkansas and just was about to close as I was speaking to this staff person. Oh well, since I wasn’t gonna make it to the other site on time I walked the grounds of the National Memorial which is in a beautiful setting. Wetlands border one side which provides space for egrets and other birds to hang out among the lotuses. The Arkansas River moseys past another part of the National Memorial, and it’s visible from an overlook at the end of a path. As I walked back to my car, I passed two armadillos scavenging in the turf. So while I didn’t get to see the prairie restoration, I finally got to see an armadillo in their three dimensional mobile form, and I thought they were adorable. So that’s not a bad substitute.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the series on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss out on future episodes. I offer the podcast for free but when you support the show with a few bucks through Patreon, you helped keep the program going. Just go to Patreon.com/DeanKlinkenberg. If you want to know more about the Mississippi River, check out my books. I write the Mississippi Valley Traveler Guidebooks for people who want to get to know the Mississippi better. I also write the Frank Dodge mystery series at certain places along the river. Find them wherever books are sold. The Mississippi Valley Traveler podcast is written and produced by me Dean Klinkenberg. Original Music by Noah Fence. See you next time.
