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It’s bonus episode time already! This episode is part one of a two-part series on fall travel along the Mississippi River. First up: fall travel through the spectacular Driftless Area. Reggie McLeod, founder and editor of Big River Magazine, and I talk about places to enjoy fall hikes, places with good views, food, and festivals. We get specific about the places we like to visit, so grab a notebook as you listen!

Show Notes

Check out Big River Magazine

Here’s a list of overlooks in the Driftless Area

Some of the places we highlighted in this discussion:

Here’s a couple of pics from the fall day I mentioned in the Mississippi Minute:

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Transcript

Reggie (00:00):

And it’s just overwhelming to be out out there in Trempealeau Refuge on, on a nice evening, just before dark, when they’re all coming in by the hundreds and thousands.

Dean (00:26):

Welcome to the Mississippi Valley Traveler podcast. I’m Dean Klinkenberg, and I’ve been exploring the deep history and rich culture of the people and places along America’s greatest river, the Mississippi, since 2007. Join me as I go deep into the characters and places along the river, and occasionally wander into other stories from the Midwest and other rivers. Read the episode show notes and get more information on the Mississippi at MississippiValleyTraveler.com. Let’s get going.

Dean (00:57):

Welcome to episode seven of the Mississippi Valley Traveler podcast. Today we have a bonus episode: part one of a two part mini series on fall travel along the Mississippi. In this episode, I talked with Reggie McLeod, the founder longtime editor of Big River Magazine based in Winona, Minnesota. I can’t imagine there’s a, a person on the planet who knows more about the Driftless area than Reggie. We have a pretty wide ranging discussion about the joys of fall travel with lots of tips about places to go. So you might want to get out your notepads and scratch a few things down. I’ll link to a lot of the places in the show notes, but, boy, we cover so many, I don’t know that I’ll be able to list every single one. So listen to it a couple times, if you need to and, as always feel free to send me a note through MississippiValleyTraveler.com, if you have questions about any of this, any of the content of the episode or a question about travel along the river. Thanks to all the Patreon supporters as usual, and thanks to y’all for listening. So let’s get on to the episode.

Dean (02:15):

Reggie McLeod is publisher and editor of Big River Magazine, which he founded in 1993–coming up on its 30 year anniversary; man, it’s hard to believe that–the magazine covers news history, travel and life along the Driftless Area, the scenic stretch of the Mississippi River and the Midwest between the Twin Cities and the Quad Cities. I know Reggie is an enthusiastic supporter and avails himself of the opportunities of life along the Driftless Area, and he’s an avid paddler. Welcome to the podcast, Reggie.

Reggie (02:49):

Well, thank you, Dean. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Dean (02:54):

It’s a pleasure to talk with you again. I think we probably missed our opportunity to share a beer or two during the summer, because our schedules are so crazy now as we try to catch up on things from the past couple of years of shutdowns. I’m curious, like if you would help folks out, tell us just what the, the Driftless Area is exactly. Can you give us a definition and describe what the Driftless Area is?

Reggie (03:19):

Well, Dean, you described it geographically pretty well. It is an area in four states: the Northwest corner of Illinois, the Southwest corner of Wisconsin, the Southeast corner of Minnesota and the Northeast corner of Iowa. And it’s an area where the glaciers of the last glacial age, the most recent one, the Wisconsin glaciers did not scrape across the land here. It, they did scrape across the land north, south, east and west of here. And so the land, the surrounding area is a lot flatter than the Driftless Area. The Driftless Area has Bluffs as high as 500 feet. There are a lot of caves and cliffs and springs and trout streams and not a lot of big cities too, because the land, doesn’t really accommodate that kind of development and sprawl. So the Twin Cities and the Quad Cities on the Mississippi are just slightly beyond the Driftless area and east and west.

Reggie (04:38):

It would stretch from just about Madison, Wisconsin to the east, to Rochester, Minnesota on the west or Cedar Rapids in Iowa say, and, it’s a great place. There’s a lot of woods, there’s less agricultural land because it’s hard to plow the hillside or the cliff faces. And, a lot of people like it that way. So a lot of the people who live here enjoy the terrain and the outdoor opportunities in the area. It’s a great, it’s a great stretch of river too, because that’s almost 400 miles of river that we cover. And 261 miles of the river along here is in the Upper Mississippi River National Wildlife and Fish Refuge. So on that 261-miles stretch, you can go out there and fish and hike and camp without getting a permit or registering or paying fees or things that you might have to do in a state park or national park or the boundary waters even. So it’s really a cool place.

Dean (06:01):

So know one of the more unique geographic features, at least the way in terms of what it’s called are these things called coulees. Can you tell us what a coulee is?

Reggie (06:11):

Well, coulees, the geological feature, are in all four states, but they generally just call ’em coulees in Wisconsin. It’s the Wisconsin language, which isn’t too hard to learn if you have patience, but we call ’em draws over here on, on the west side of the river. They’re the valleys that generally open up into the river. So there are areas where the limestone and, the bedrock here is limestone and sandstone and different layers, kind of like a, not like a sandwich, almost like a layer cake or something. There’s a lot of layers of sandstone and limestone.

Reggie (07:01):

So it erodes easily because the rain has a little bit of acid in it and that dissolves the limestone. And when that dissolves away, the sandstone underneath it generally erodes out a lot more easily and it collapses. So over the thousands of years, these valleys have formed where little streams flow into the Mississippi River, and those are the coulees and up in the end of a coulee, the dead end part, the closed part, there’s usually springs where the water is, is seeping out from the groundwater, is seeping out of the ground into little pools and the water stays very cool, which is something that the trout like. And, it’s, it’s quite nice, but there’s, there’s a lot of those along the river.

Dean (07:57):

And those coulees and particularly, or in a lot of places, there’s a little, two lane road that’ll pass through the coulees. And it’s some of the more scenic drives when you get away from the main stem of the Mississippi itself. The drive through some of the coulees are some of my favorites in that area. So just to sort of orient folks a little bit too, when we’re talking about this particular region, really the, the largest cities–and big is not really a word that we would use to describe many of these places would be–La Crosse, Wisconsin, Dubuque, Iowa, Winona, Minnesota. Those would probably be the main cities and places where people might base if they’re gonna spend a few days along the river in the Driftless Area.

Reggie (08:38):

Sure, sure. Red Wing. I’d put Red Wing and Clinton, Iowa in there too. Yeah, they’re kinda on a larger floodplain, but not super large. Prairie du Chien, too. That’s that’s another one on the river.

Dean (08:58):

And for context, I think the official population of the city of La Crosse has hovered around 50,000/55,000 for a while. La Crosse County’s a little bigger than that. Prairie du Chien is what, 10 or 12,000 people? Perhaps I am being generous? <laugh>

Reggie (09:15):

I don’t know offhand. I’m, I’m familiar with a few of the others. It might be less than 10,000 in Prairie du Chien, but I’m not sure,

Dean (09:24):

But there’s, it’s a good place to base as well though. There are lots of hotels and Airbnbs and B&Bs, and that kind of thing.

Reggie (09:32):

It’s one of the settlements on the river too, which makes it interesting for a lot of reasons. There’s, there’s Indian mounds right in the city limits and the Villa Louis, and one of the first forts on the river was located there at Prairie du Chien, too. So historically it’s, kind of stands out.

Dean (09:53):

It’s just a little north of the confluence of the Wisconsin and Mississippi Rivers and is, probably for thousands of years, has been because of the wide floodplain there, for probably thousands of years, it’s an area where people have come together sometimes temporarily, sometimes built communities. So yeah, it’s got a very deep history to it.

Reggie (10:12):

Yeah. Yeah.

Dean (10:13):

Well, I invited you here primarily to talk about fall-related travel though. So, so let me ask you this to kind of kick things off. How do you know when fall starts in the Driftless Area? What are the signs that it’s fall?

Reggie (10:29):

Well, it’s the day after Labor Day. <Laugh> Well, it’s, it’s changed Dean. I would say 20 years ago, 20, 25 years ago, the day after Labor Day, people would start pulling their boats out of the river and storing them for, for the winter. And, of course the kids go back to school and before the end of September, the leaves would start changing, turning. And now that’s not the case. A lot of people keep their boats in the water until the end of October. And the leaves really start turning more in mid-October generally. So we’ve added 2, 3, 4 weeks to summer, and it’s a little more comfortable part of summer. Of course, it’s less likely to get up around, you know, the upper nineties during the day. And there aren’t many kids and families running around during the week either. So that quiets things down in a lot of the, the parks and state parks and so on.

Reggie (11:42):

So it’s, it’s a little more ambiguous and it used to be Labor Day used to be a pretty good marker for a lot of things. But now I kind of think of the fall as starting more at the end of September. And sometimes we have really great Octobers and sometimes the weather is, is pretty nice even into November a bit on the river. The big dramatic thing that, that hasn’t changed is a lot of the river shipping is done a, a disproportionate amount of the shipping and tows, tow boats, and barges is, done in October, November. And that’s because the corn is still harvested around the same time, and after it’s harvested, it has to be dried out. And soybeans too, soybeans are harvested a little earlier, but that means a lot of grain, mainly corn and soybeans need to be shipped down the river before they close the lock and dams on the river. So the, the tow traffic gets busy, especially in November, and that hasn’t shifted, you know, some things have changed because of climate change and then other schedules just haven’t changed. The river generally starts to freeze up in early December. And that’s why they usually just schedule the locks to close probably about a weekend of December, whatever the temperature is, you know, however much ice there is in the river. They have to set that schedule, you know, long enough beforehand so that everyone can get done what they need to get done.

Dean (13:31):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>

Reggie (13:32):

So that’s a long answer. <laugh>

Dean (13:34):

That’s all right.

Reggie (13:36):

It’s complicated. It’s changing. Yeah.

Dean (13:38):

It’s changing. Right. So, that’s probably true in a lot of parts of the river, but it seems like maybe some of those changes are more noticeable the further north you go that the season being extended a little bit. I’m not sure that people down in Louisiana notice it quite as much as you might up in Minnesota, but, I’ll have to ask somebody down there.

Reggie (14:01):

Yeah. Because I always, I generally spend my falls in Minnesota, so I’m not really sure.

Dean (14:08):

Well, one of the things that I was wondering about, so if somebody was planning a trip along the Great River Road through the Driftless area in the fall, what are some of the quintessential experiences you think they should, uh, partake in during the time they’re driving the river?

Reggie (14:28):

Well, one of the neatest things for anybody, you know, whatever kind of outdoor activity or physical abilities they might have or interest they might have is the overlooks along the Mississippi River, because a lot of these bluffs are, you know, almost 500 feet higher than the river. There are just incredible views from the tops of a lot of ’em and there are some you have to hike up to, but there are many that you can drive pretty close to. And it’s a, it’s a pretty short walk out to the scenic part of the bluff. Two of my, well, I’ll mention a few of my favorite ones. I think my, my two favorite ones are above Alma, Buena Vista Park, above Alma. You can see for, for many miles, that’s, that’s a good one in the summer, too. There’s always a cool breeze up there, but when the leaves change, of course, these overlooks get even more dramatically beautiful.

Reggie (15:41):

And you’re often walking through a, a forest or at least a, a park with a lot of trees on your way to the bluff. So it’s, it’s quite a show. The overlook above Alma allows you to look actually down on, on the little rivertown of Alma, and you can look into the, the locks and watch towboats lock through, and you can see schools of fish out on the, the river above the lock and dam there. And it’s, it’s beautiful. You can see a lot of backwaters from there. You can see Wiggle Waggle Slough, one the more interesting names of a, of a backwater. The other one that I like a lot is Pike’s Peak State Park by McGregor, Iowa. And that has an overlook that has a structure built out like the prowl of the ship almost, but it gets you out a little farther.

Reggie (16:48):

So you can even see more of the river, and the panorama is even larger. And directly across from there is the Wisconsin River where it flows into the Mississippi River. So that makes it even more interesting. And there are a lot of backwaters and channels right across from there, and it’s just a beautiful spot. And it’s interesting. Those are my two favorite places, and they’re both a fairly short walk from the parking lot to the overlook, but the one in Alma doesn’t have any railings or much development. And the one at Pike’s Peak State Park has railings in that structure that I mentioned. So there’s, there’s a little more human intervention in, in that, but it really doesn’t take away from the beauty of, of the views up there. In fact, it, it probably adds to it, there are a number of Indian mounds that are a short walk from the overlook in Pikes Peak State Park.

Reggie (17:56):

Uh, there’s a bear mound just nearby. That’s really interesting. And from Pikes Peak, you’re looking across at Wyalusing State Park, which overlooks the Mississippi as well as the Wisconsin River. And that has a really good overlook that with a view of Pikes Peak State Park. So actually it’s kind of dueling overlooks there. One of the interesting things about Wyalusing State Park that I really like is there are campsites there that overlook the Mississippi and the Wisconsin Rivers. So you can, you know, get out of your tent in the morning, when you open the door while you’re still in the tent, you can see up the Mississippi River valley and parts of Prairie du Chien. So that’s a pretty cool place in the fall, too. There’s a lot of trails there. There’s also really great overlook.

Dean (18:56):

I was gonna say real quick, those campsites are probably not ideal if you’re a sleepwalker, but they’re, they are spectacular campsites.

Reggie (19:03):

Well, if you’re a sleepwalker, there’s, there’s a lot of poison ivy right along the edge of the bluff; it might keep you from falling off the bluff, although you may prefer falling off the bluff than, than walking through a bunch of poison ivy, I guess. <Laugh> There’s, there’s a really great overlook above Lansing, Iowa. Great River Bluff State Park by Dakota, Minnesota, is also really good. The overlooks at La Crosse and Winona are good, but you see more of the city than you do at the backwaters and, and the river. Although the overlook in Winona here, you can see from Alma to Trempealeau Mountain, which is about a 30 mile, probably a little more than 30 miles of river. From one place, you can just swivel your head and see 30 miles of the river, which is pretty good. I think that’s the longest view you can see from any of them. And there are a few dozen more. We’ve done articles in the magazine where we’ve listed, I think, 48 overlooks along our stretch of the river. But those are the outstanding ones, but the other ones are, they’re all good.

Dean (20:26):

Right? And the ones that you mentioned, those are all places that you could drive and have after a short walk, you could get to the overlook themselves. If you were going to pick one place that required more work, that you had to hike for a little while to get to a good overlook like that, what would be your preference there?

Reggie (20:44):

Oh, Effigy Mounds would be my, my first pick and, and that’s one of my favorite overlooks, certainly. That’s a national monument and there are over a hundred mounds, Indian mounds up there. Many of them are effigy mounds–bird mounds, and bear mounds. And they have a great little museum, and you walk up from the museum to the top, which is where the mounds are. And of course that’s where the great overlooks are. There’s also a south unit of Effigy Mounds National Monument. And that also has a nice long walk up to the top. And there’s some great mounds up there. The view isn’t as good from up there. There’s a lot of trees in the way, and, and it’s not a really open view of the river, but it’s a great walk and it’s really beautiful in the fall.

Reggie (21:37):

There are lots of trails, in Effigy Mounds National Monument and in the Wyalusing State Park and, and Pikes Peak State Park. Alma, the Alma overlook, you can walk up to from town. Also, you, a lot of these river towns, the streets are tiered. So that one street parallels the river and the next street over might be about 10 or 20 feet higher, the next street over might be 10 or 20 feet higher. So in Alma, you get up to the highest street and there’ll be a sign that will tell you where the trail is up to the top of that. So yeah, there’s a lot of good, good hikes around these overlooks and, some of them, you do have to walk a half mile or a mile to get to,

Dean (22:32):

Right. The, one of the things that I love about that stretch of the river in particular is there are so many public lands. And you’ve mentioned a few places. You mentioned the refuge lands, the Upper Miss[issippi] Refuge, the state parks, but there are also some areas set aside that are natural areas or wilderness areas that are less developed than state parks. Can you just talk a little bit about the different kinds of public lands that people might be able to visit? And I know this time of year, we’re talking about fall travel, we have to be aware of hunting season too, and that might impact where you want to hike. So could you touch on, on those issues really quickly for me?

Reggie (23:10):

Yeah. A lot of state natural areas are open to hunting, and then a lot of them, some aren’t either. You really have to have to check on that. One of my favorite ones is the Maiden Rock Bluff State Natural Area, which is between Stockholm and Maiden Rock, Wisconsin. And you can walk out to an incredible overlook above Lake Pepin there. And Lake Pepin is a, is a broad stretch of the Mississippi River where it gets almost two miles wide. And it’s about, I think, 15 miles long, I would guess. Yeah. It’s about almost 15 miles long and that has a restored prairie on there and it’s just, it’s, it’s a great walk and it’s, it’s an incredible view. Um, another interesting place is the dunes. Gosh, what’s the name? The Weaver Dunes by Kellogg, Minnesota.

Reggie (24:25):

And those are sand dunes that are, they some have been restored, but some of them are original dry prairie or a kind of sand prairie. And if you’re interested in prairie plants and birds and so on, that’s a really good spot. There’s just, there’s a lot of public land, because a lot of it’s too steep to develop or plow. And the Reno, down in Reno, Minnesota, which isn’t on a lot of maps. Well that’s between Brownsville, Minnesota, and New Albin, Iowa. And there’s a really nice overlook there in an old quarry. And that’s a state natural area, as well. I mean, there are dozens and dozens along the river on, on both sides. There’s a lot of county parks too, that offer camping right on the river. And there’s Goose Island County Park, just down river of La Crosse.

Reggie (25:33):

There are probably dozens of them along the river. And also, you know, in the fall, in, in my judgment that’s the best time to camp on the river, because I mentioned earlier that you can camp for free on the refuge and you don’t have to register or pay anything. I think there’s a limit that you can’t camp in the same place for more than two weeks. Something like that. There’s a limit on how long you can camp. And of course, there are rules that come down to basically don’t be a jerk. You’ve gotta clean up after yourself and not be a nuisance and not use fireworks or shoot guns or anything. That can be influenced by hunting season too, of course, in the fall. But I found camping in late September and early October was the best because the nights are cool.

Reggie (26:30):

You don’t have to worry about mosquitoes and you’ll probably have on a long sleeve shirt and a hat anyway, at night. And during the week, there’s very little traffic besides the, the barges on the main channel. And they’re not real busy until the later part of October. So that stretch from early September to mid-October is great. And usually the color in the leaves are peaking in, you know, around mid-October. Now it’s worth mentioning that season wise, there’s about a week’s difference between the Twin Cities and the Quad Cities. So if the leaf color is peaking in the Twin Cities on one day, you can almost depend on it peaking in the quad cities about seven days later. And the same is true with things blooming and, and those sorts of natural phenomena. But the camping is, is just great.

Reggie (27:34):

And, and when I’ve paddled the river in the fall, or in the summer for that matter, you can, you can paddle most of it, especially below the Twin Cities. You can, you don’t have to paddle in the main channel. You can paddle in backwater channels. And if you have some good maps and the Fish and Wildlife Service has great maps of the refuge, and the Army Corps of Engineers has really good charts of the river that, that show the backwater channels. You can paddle through those backwaters and not see another boat or another person sometimes all day.

Dean (28:12):

Right. And some of the, some of the places that you’ve mentioned have designated water trails through those areas, like I know Goose Island County Park, there’s a water trail through the backwaters there. Wyalusing State Park has a designated water trail. So there are places like that where you could do a fairly, you know, quick and easy paddle through the backwaters, following marked, a marked trail, essentially.

Reggie (28:34):

Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a, that’s a good point, Dean. Yeah, and there’s, there’s more canoe trails every year. They keep figuring out more of, and they’re marked with small blue signs. If you’re not color blind, like me, those are pretty helpful. There’s a real good one below McGregor that goes by another unit of the Effigy Mounds National Park, which is actually down on the floodplain next to the river, by the Sny McGill boat landing, there are so many Indian mountains down there. They almost run into each other in places they’re pretty thick. But you could paddle right down to that from McGregor, if you wanted, and those maps, mark closing dams, and any structures that you might wanna watch out for. If you’re paddling it’s, it’s good to know a little bit about the river and have a little day paddling experience before you launch off on a long paddle.

Reggie (29:35):

Although I’ve known, I’m sure you have, too, Dean people who have paddled the length of the river that started off being totally unaware of, of any of the things you should know, and, they’ve survived and had a good time, but they probably learned the hard way about a few. But I would advise, you know, talking and, and doing some day trips before you were to do a long trip. But, but there’s a lot of nice beaches that you can see from the boat landing. You could go to boat landing and, and paddle a half mile or a mile to a nice beach camp. If you wanted to do that. I mean, you don’t have to do an epic voyage to camp out in the backwaters.

Dean (30:17):

Right? So we, you mentioned a few places where one could hike to get to an overlook. Is, are there any other particular places you think would be good hikes to get the fall color in the Driftless area?

Reggie (30:33):

Well, Paisades State Park in Savannah, near Savannah, is really good. Perrot Park is just really terrific, by Trempealeau. They have a lot of trails and a lot of hills and valleys and even some coulees, and it’s right by a major bike trail on the river. In the fall is a good time to hit the bike trails, and there are, at least on the Wisconsin and Illinois side, on the east side of the river, there are a lot of good long bike trails, a couple that are around the 30 mile length. So those are, those are pretty cool. And you can hike on those too. I hiked one fall from Winona to La Crosse, and the way I went was about a 35 mile hike. And I did it in a couple days and stayed in Trempealeau, and I just carried my stuff in a backpack, and I just stayed at the Trempealeau Hotel.

Reggie (31:31):

So I didn’t have to haul a tent and buy water and all that stuff with me. Whitewater State Park, which is away from the river is really great. Merrick State Park has hiking and camping right on the river as does Trempealea [Perrot] State Park. Great River Bluffs has some trails that gets pretty busy in the fall. Frontenac State Park, which is right on Lake Pepin, has some great trails with great views and, and they have campsites there, as well. I mean, <laugh>I’m talking about all these places. There’s some really good places near the river, too. Whitewater State Park, which is in Winona County, but it’s a few miles from the river, that has a lot of nice hiking trails and good places to view the colors too. That’s a really large state park.

Dean (32:29):

I remember a few years ago when I was talking with some of the business owners in river towns, they mentioned to me, and I think, I don’t think a lot of people realize it’s busiest time of year for a lot of those river towns is actually the fall and not, not midsummer. So if you’re gonna be traveling down the river in the fall, you know, it helps to make your plans in advance. Book your accommodations in advance, if you can, especially if you’re traveling on weekends, when things fill up pretty fast. If you have the flexibility to travel during the week, though, I found things are pretty wide open. Has that kind of been your experience too?

Reggie (33:05):

Yeah, well, because of the schools being in session, a lot of the traveling is confined to the, to the weekends and the weekends do get busier than the summer weekends. Part of that maybe is, it’s spread out a little more in the summer, but, but also a major attraction around here are the apple orchards. A lot of the apple orchards have special events. They kind of create a festive atmosphere and apples are great. I mean, that’s something I love about living here is, is I’ll get four or five or six different types of apples over the course of a fall and try ’em and try ’em from different places. And some of the apple orchards have beer gardens and some are pick, pick your own and you’d be amazed how much fun kids have if you take ’em to an orchard, where they can pick their own apples. They just go nuts.

Reggie (33:58):

I mean, I’ve, I’ve done that quite a few times with people from out of town who visited. They have apple cider. They often have baked goods. Sometimes they’ll have entertainment. And the wineries tend to do that in this area, as well. I think they put on a little, well, they probably get a, a lot more visitors on the weekends in the fall too, I would guess. And, and that’s because a lot of them have outdoor dining and tables, and it’s usually pretty comfortable sitting outside in the fall. Whereas if it’s hot in the summer, it may not be all that comfortable. So that’s, that’s interesting too. And of course the restaurants, if you’re talking about outdoor dining we did a story in the current issue of Big River on some notable places to dine outdoors in the fall. And COVID is still an issue in this country and in the Midwest. And a lot of us are a little more comfortable dining and doing things outdoors. And we have a, a couple more months to do that. And, and that’s probably gonna keep a lot of restaurants busy in the fall too, with their, their outdoor areas. But orchards definitely should be on the list. There are really a lot of orchards.

Dean (35:28):

So let me pin you down. Can you, can you recommend a couple orchards in particular that you think would offer a good experience either for the variety of apples they have to offer, or maybe a place to spend a couple of hours relaxing?

Reggie (35:40):

Yeah. Um, Fergusons and Eckers in Wisconsin between, well, towards Galesville, west, they’re both west of Galesville, kind of between Winona and Galesville. And Eckers has, has a beer garden, and they both have playgrounds for kids. Fergusons. I think they still have pick your own. That’s a good place. They, they give you a bag and you, you pay for a bag of apples, whatever kind varieties you put in there. And that’s, I mean, I’ve done that just with adults and we’ve had a good time too, cause the orchards are usually on steep land, so as you climb up the hill, you get, you get a nice invigorating walk, but you also get a really nice view of the, of the valley in the area. And you, there there’s something satisfying about picking apples. There’s some really good apple orchards in the Kickapoo Valley by Gays Mills and La Crescent has a number of apple orchards. Lake Pepin has some apple orchards. I think there’s still some by Prairie du Chien, and they advertise a lot in the fall. There’s apple fests in Galesville, Wisconsin and in La Crescent, Minnesota, as well. So I, I dunno if the Kickapoo, if Gay Mills has an apple fest, but they do have a, a few orchards over there.

Dean (37:22):

I know, like if you had a limited amount of time and you wanted to do a short scenic drive, the Apple Blossom Scenic Route, a scenic drive from La Crescent up to, is it Dresbach or Dakota? I always forget where the road ends. It kind of winds through the bluffs, and there are a couple of places with overlooks. And then there are a handful of orchards along that route too, where you can stop and sample directly from, from the orchards. So that’s a quick and easy way. You could probably do the drive in 20 minutes if you didn’t stop and maybe a couple of hours, if you do it leisurely.

Reggie (37:55):

Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a good point. And that’s also, that probably gets more traffic in the spring when the apples are in bloom because, all those, I mean, hundreds, if not thousands of apple trees are all blooming at the same time and it’s pretty spectacular. It’s even hard to enjoy the overlook and, and there’s some great views of the river and Lake Onalaska from up there. But it’s, it’s really gorgeous when all those blossoms are, are out at the same time.

Dean (38:27):

So I know there, there are some, at least, one major festival that happens in the fall, in the Driftless Area. Can you take us through a couple of the festivals that people might be able to drop in on during this time of year?

Reggie (38:41):

Well, if you like polka or rock and roll and beer, of course you gotta go to Octoberfest in La Crosse. It’s, I think the population probably doubles in La Crosse for Octoberfest. And I was just there a couple days ago, and we’re talking about early September and there were people in town wearing their Octoberfest outfits already. They get really cranked up over that, and they have a large Octoberfest grounds with two stages. And that’s why I said rock and roll and polka, the grounds are so large that one stage, they have rock and roll pretty much all the time and the other, they have polka almost all the time. And you can’t hear the music from the, you know, when you’re at one stage, you can’t hear the music from the other stage, they are that far apart in the Octoberfest grounds.

Reggie (39:38):

And there’s a huge parade on Saturday morning, I think it’s on Saturday morning now, at the end of October, I mean, I’m sorry, at the end of September, by October 1st. And, yeah, in fact, they have two Octoberfest grounds. They have a smaller Octoberfest grounds on the north side. And people dress up like they’re in Germany. The women wear their, what are they called? Dirndls out, you know, those big skirts. And the men have their lederhosen on and their, their little hats and suspenders <laugh> and they’re, and they’re deeply into it. But of course, there are a lot of young people who are just there to drink beer, too, and party, but it’s very, it’s very well organized. You’d think it would be more chaotic than it is, but it’s, it’s always seemed and I, I don’t go to it often, but I was just there a few years ago, and, you know, they’ve done this a lot. They know how to do it and, and take care of people and have it come out nicely for people, yet. They still let people have a lot of fun, obvious mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it’s obvious that they’re having a lot of fun. Let’s just say, that’s probably the biggest festival in the area in the fall.

Dean (41:08):

And again, that’s a, that’s another one that will require some advanced planning, if you want to go, because the hotel rooms often book weeks in advance. So it’s hard to do it spontaneously. If you’re expecting to spend the night in that area too, you should probably check that out in advance.

Reggie (41:23):

That’s a good point. Cause I think the, I think the population probably does double in La Crosse. If you’re in there on Saturday night during Octoberfest, there’d probably be well over a hundred thousand people in town. Yeah, but it’s fun. And some people think about it all year. A lot of people in La Crosse are getting ready for, you know, weeks ahead of time.

Dean (41:48):

Let’s switch it up a little bit, this isn’t exactly a festival, but one of the major fall markers of fall, maybe even late fall is the tundra swan migration. Can you just tell us a little bit about that experience and where people might be able to enjoy that?

Reggie (42:07):

Sure. A lot, a lot of birders come here in the, in the fall. And that is important to mention because this is probably the busiest flyaway in the country, along the Mississippi River and already the flocks of blackbird are starting to fly south. And if you’re sitting on the river and you see a blackbird flock and you have some binoculars, you can watch that flock for a long time and it’ll be, it’ll undulate and that’s why the binoculars would be good on one side of the valley or the other, but it’s miles long. It might be one continuous flock down the river for miles, you’ll if, if you can watch it, you’ll never see the end of it with some of these flocks are so large, black birds, and then they settle into people’s cornfields at night. And then a lot of farmers in the river valley have propane cannons that go off all the time.

Reggie (43:11):

So if you’re out here, you might think it’s hunting season when it’s the propane cannons in cornfields going off to startle the blackbirds and, and then the raptors are flying south. You have eagles flying south and hawks flying south along the river and you can see those really well from the overlooks. And of course, waterfowl, the ducks. The, I think the pelicans are already well on their way. I think they’re moving down. We see the egrets, the white snowy egrets, this time of year around mid-September in the backwaters. They come through in mass and the last bird that flies through, and this is, this is the sign that the fall is over is when the swans migrate through. And there are places where you can see thousands and thousands of swans resting in the backwaters late in the day and early in the day, especially the Trempealeau Refuge, which is just between Winona and Trempealeau, Wisconsin on the Wisconsin side of the river.

Reggie (44:27):

That’s really a good place to see migrating birds. I’ve been been out there hiking right at sunset when the swans are coming into land for the night, and they come in just like flights at a busy airport. Each flock will be a hundred, 130 birds in a flock in those big V-shaped flocks, circling around and landing. And they’re all talking at the same time. If you want to anthromorphize the swan, I think they’re talking, and it’s just overwhelming to be out out there in the Trempealeau Refuge on, on a nice evening, just, just before dark, when they’re all coming in by the, by the hundreds and thousands. Another good place to see them is probably the most popular place to go see them is just below Brownsville, Minnesota. There’s a large viewing area and there’s volunteers out there to interpret the wildlife for you, point things out, tell you things about the swans and there’s a large parking area. I was out there one night. I was visiting some friends farther down the river at Harpers Ferry and I was driving home. Oh, after midnight, it was about one o’clock in the morning. And I pulled in that overlook when all these thousands of swans were in there. And they’re in there on the opposite shore is, is where Goose Island County Park is that we mentioned earlier south of La Crosse. And you can see a lot of swans from there too, but it’s almost solid swans between that overlook in Minnesota and the Goose Island in Wisconsin. But I was out there at about one o’clock at night and the racket, the decimal level of all of those swans carrying on, cuz they, I don’t know if they’re talking in their sleep or what, what the hell they’re doing out there.

Reggie (46:27):

But, it was almost deafening. I mean, I stood out there for a while and I was really enjoying it for a while, but after a while, it, I’ve seen this happen with fireworks before, you start to hallucinate. If you hear a loud sound for a long time, it starts to change. And this was definitely a case of that. It’s, it was pretty neat. And it was a nice enough night where I could actually see them. There was a little bit of moonlight. But there are busloads of people that come down there just to see the swans during the day and the Fish and Wildlife Service arranges some bus trips from Winona. And I think they do that from some other towns, but, but the place to be is that one overlook between south of Brownsville, between Brownsville and Iowa.

Dean (47:21):

There’s so much we could cover here today and I’ve just taken a, a look at the time and we’re probably gonna have to wind this down here pretty soon. I have two more questions. I’ll throw the first one out. It’s, it’s a hard one to answer with, I’ll put you on the spot with it. So I wanna come back to food. We mentioned apples, you know, there are a lot of apple orchards in the area. Are there any other foods that remind you of fall or that people should check out? A specific kind of food or maybe a place to eat that they should check out that has a special appeal in fall?

Reggie (47:55):

That’s a good <laugh> that, that is a tough question. I always think of Octoberfest beer in October and it’s called marston beer, kind of the, what they call it in Germany, I guess. But a lot of places market it as Octoberfest beer and a lot of the brew pubs serve that and they, they only brew it in the fall. So that’s kind of nice. You don’t really eat that.

Dean (48:22):

Some people might make it a meal, but it’s probably not, uh, advisable, <laugh>

Reggie (48:27):

That’s, you can get some nutrition from it. A lot of these apple orchards also make apple pies, which they sell frozen or fresh, and those are worth tasting. And a lot of them have a little specialty. You know, some of ’em are pretty heavy handed with the cinnamon and some might put cheese in or different things. I, you know, to me, I just think apples in the fall. And part of that is just who I am. You know, I, I really like finding the best caramel apples with peanuts, <laugh> visiting the apple orchards, you know, and I buy a bag of apples. I always have to buy a couple of those and check those out. There are, you know, one of the rare items that I always look for in the fall too, are getting hickory nuts and black walnuts.

Reggie (49:17):

And both of those are only from wild trees and they take, especially the black walnuts, take an enormous amount of work to crack open, but there are, and I don’t want to stereotype, but most of the people I have found that sell those are old farmers that watch a lot of TV and they have some really good vice grips. Everyone has their trick to, to cracking those nuts open, but the best apple pie that I’ve ever had, and, and I usually make a couple of these in the fall, is an apple pie with black walnuts. And black walnuts are kind of an astringent to eat by themselves, but they, they really, really compliment, apple pie, apples really well. They make a terrific pie. It’s a little hard to find black walnuts and you probably don’t wanna crack or clean them.

Reggie (50:14):

But some of these small apple stands and vegetable stands on the river will offer them by, you know, sell ’em by the pound, by the bag, and the hickory nuts are really good. Hickory are a type of pecan. And when you get down by the Quad Cities, there are actually wild pecan trees, but above the Quad Cities there aren’t. And hickory nuts are a type of pecan. And there used to be some coffee shops, I knew of some restaurants that made hickory nut pie in the fall. And that’s remarkable if you like pecan pie, you’ll probably like hickory pie, even better. They’re a little smaller than pecans. And they maybe have, they have a little different taste. They taste a lot like pecans, but they do have their own flavor. And they’re really excellent, too. So if you’re traveling around here, that might be a good game to play is stopping in some of these little stands and, and you might be lucky enough to buy some of those and find out for yourself.

Dean (51:20):

That sounds great. And now, if I happen to be traveling up near you in the fall, I’m gonna be expecting you to let me know if you’ve got a pie with apple and black walnuts in it, and hope that you’ll save a slice for me.

Reggie (51:34):

Well, let me, let me know when you’re, when you’re coming up here, Dean, and I’ll do it. I can, I know one place where last year I bought some, some black walnuts, so they might still have ’em this year.

Dean (51:47):

Great. Well, as we kind of wind down the, the discussion today, I was just kind of curious if you could tell me about one fall experience that you always look forward to, as the, as the weather starts to change, like what’s one experience that you really look forward to having in the fall.

Reggie (52:06):

Something that I try to do every year is to, and I often do this late in the fall is to go to Effigy Mounds Monument and hike out to the very end of the trail in, in the main unit of the, of the park there. And, I go during the week and it’s a very kind of meditative kind of thing, because the farther out you go on this trail and it kind of winds along the bluff, and then it goes back around the coulee and back out to the bluff and winds back and forth. And it’s beautiful. It’s mostly maple trees up there. And, I think if you go out to the end and back, it’s probably about a seven mile hike, maybe seven and a half miles, something like that, but it’s a little bit up and down and it’s a, you know, it’s a dirt path, so it’s a little harder hiking than you might be used to. But it’s just gorgeous in the fall. And that’s something that I have done most falls for, for quite a few years. And then afterwards, I sometimes, I usually go down to McGregor, which is just a short drive from there and have an early, early dinner and a beer and either drive back home or find a place to stay around there. And that’s something that, that I always enjoy tremendously in the fall. I usually do that kind of late in the fall and on a weekday.

Dean (53:44):

Nice. That sounds like a great day to me. Well, so where can folks follow you and the magazine? Where are the best places to follow what’s going on with y’all?

Reggie (53:56):

Well, BigRiverMagazine.com has a lot of information, and we have some stories posted up on there. We usually try to get some seasonal stories on there and I’ll, I’ll check on Monday and, and see if we can get, if we don’t have stuff about the overlooks, which we probably do already, we’ll get something right up there and that’s a good place to learn about it. And that also tells where the magazine is for sale, and it gives information about subscribing. There’s a lot of good free information on there and links to weather and all the river towns and water levels and that sort of thing too.

Dean (54:36):

Great. And I’ll put that in the show notes as well. Reggie, thanks so much. I wish we could have this chat in person maybe, maybe next year we’ll do a spring travel, episode of the Driftless Area. We’ll do it at a brew pub or someplace like that, where we can be in person. Thanks so much for your time.

Reggie (54:55):

Oh, I enjoyed it. I, I really love talking about the river, as you can probably tell. So, thank you.

Dean (55:01):

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Dean (55:26):

And now it’s time for the Mississippi Minute. In my discussion with Reggie [from Big River Magazine] about fall travel along the Mississippi, he told, he told us about one of his favorite fall experiences. I thought I’d share one of mine, as well. A few years back, I was staying in La Crosse, Wisconsin, kind of at the tail end of fall. A lot of the color had gone from the trees in the bluffs. A few scattered maples were, were still bright in the trees, but the fall color was beginning to fade down at river level. There were some trees that still had some color, and I was really trying to capture one of those classic fall moments when you get the splashes of color and morning fog. And man, I got lucky. I got up with the sun on this one particular morning, made some coffee and, and headed out and ended up driving down to a place called Blackhawk Park.

Dean (56:20):

That is, I don’t know, a half hour-ish, south of La Crosse. And I just found this gorgeous area, uh, where the trees had bright colors. There were oranges and yellows. There were wisps of mist rising from the river or a little thicker fog in some places, especially along the bluff line. I just, I sat there and I took it in for a while. Of course, I took a lot of pictures too, but I just kinda watched as the sun came up and slowly burned off the fog and illuminated the, the colors of the, in the trees around me. There were, there were people who were burning fires, probably some of the first fires of the fall. So the smell of, of wood smoke sort of drifted through the, the backwaters where I was sitting. I just sipped my coffee and took it all in.

Dean (57:12):

And it was an absolutely beautiful morning. Fall is one of my favorite times of year, particularly along the upper Mississippi. I love the transition to fall with the colors. And when you catch those mornings, when you get that little bit of morning fog on the water, it’s especially glorious. I’ll post a couple pictures from that. I would love to hear about what your favorite memories or fall experiences are along the Mississippi, regardless of where you are between Minnesota and Louisiana. Drop me a line and share your story.

New Speaker (57:43):

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the series on your favorite podcast app, so you don’t miss out on future episodes. I offer the podcast for free, but when you support the show with a few bucks through Patreon, you help keep the program going. Just go to patreon.com/DeanKlinkenberg. If you want to know more about the Mississippi River, check out my books. I write the Mississippi Valley Traveler guidebooks for people who want to get to know the Mississippi better. I also write the Frank Dodge mystery series that is set in places along the river. Find them wherever books are sold. The Mississippi Valley Traveler podcast is written and produced by me, Dean Klinkenberg. Original music by Noah Fence. See you next time.